Mike and Bryan are NOT trolls (Fan Commentary)

[EndangeredOptimist]

AP Admin/Mods: I hope this is the right place to start this thread. If not, so sorry, please advise where it should be posted.

Bryan Konietzko and Michael Dante DiMartino are sadistic 'trolls' using Nickelodeon's 'The Legend of Korra' for their own diabolical delight? Seriously?

Recently Nickelodeon's 'The Legend of Korra' co-creator Bryan Konietzko responded via his Tumblr blog to apparent fan 'outrage' over a web comic he and co-creator Michael Dante DiMartino posted via Bryan's blog.

The comic playfully illustrated fandom's vehement reaction to Avatar Korra being 'blood-bent' by the now bending-defunct former Republic City Councilman Tarrlok. Apparently many fans felt Mike and Bryan were "trolling" in offering this dramatic and unquestionably dark plot twist in 'The Legend of Korra' storyline.

I'm trying to visualize a circumstance in which Bryan or Mike would ever really merit the title, "troll." It's difficult to imagine that term being used to describe the creative genius behind 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' and 'The Legend of Korra.'

Granted, Mike and Bryan are, ironically enough, the 'M. Night Shyamalans' of the animated world when it comes to executing unexpected and highly dramatic plot twists. (Oh yeah, I went there)

Case in point: Fire Lord Zuko and Avatar Roku were revealed to be blood kin. Remember that super-shocker from ATLA? And that was just one of many 'OMFG' fan moments.

Make no mistake, "bloodbending" is a cruel and ruthless act. It is the term used for an admittedly sinister and savage bending art.

But let's go back for a moment and look at where and how it all started--back before Republic City crime lord Yakone or even councilman Tarrlok.

Let's go back to Hama.

I've often said the complexities of Hama's character and the subsequent inner conflict and turmoil it posed for Katara, were some of the very best and most exquisite storytelling to come out of Bryan and Mike's brilliant minds during in the entire ATLA series.

The truth is Hama would likely have never acquired the art of "bloodbending" had it not been for her brutal capture and painful imprisonment by the Fire Nation in ATLA.

You have to ask yourself, "Is Hama really a heartless 'puppetmaster' or is she a victim of war, who, using her Water Tribe resilience, enabled herself to survive an experience which killed most, if not all, of her fellow waterbending brothers and sisters?"

It's the deliciously complex moral conundrum or mind-puzzle Mike and Bryan are famous for--it forces the viewing audience to stop, think and deeply consider what they just witnessed.

It is important, if not vital, in 'The Legend of Korra,' for us to consider character and storyline development in more than mere two-dimensional terms.

For example, Republic City is finally rid of its apparent 'weasel' in former councilman Tarrlok--fair enough. But that 'weasel' was the ONLY thing which kept the 'snake' that is Amon in check. Now that Tarrlok is gone, Amon is free to unleash his plans upon a seemingly unprepared Republic City with only a struggling young Avatar, who has yet to master or even attain basic airbending, let alone the 'Avatar State,' standing in his way.

Just like in real life, sometimes it's difficult to label people or events as being concretely 'good' or entirely 'bad.'

As BK so eloquently stated in his Tumblr blog, "...We're just doing what we always did: trying to tell an exciting story with character arcs, dynamic character relationships, humanized characters with virtues and flaws, action, danger, intrigue, humor, drama, teen romance, scary stuff, etc. But somehow now that's all trolling and we're trolls for it..."

Far from it Bryan.

'Avatar' is not, nor has it ever been "just a kid's TV show." That train left the station a long time ago and there's no going back.

The only thing BK and MD-squared can truly be guilty of is offering high-quality storytelling complete with incredibly realistic undertones which just so happen to fall out into the world as an animated cartoon featured on the kid's TV network, Nickelodeon.

Labeling Bryan Konietzko and Michael Dante DiMartino as 'trolls' for creating powerfully thought-provoking art would be akin to labeling Picasso, a 'mindless scribbler' or Da Vinci, a 'pointless doodler.'

The label just doesn't fit.

[Mika Hayami]

They totally are trolls...

Most good storytellers are. It keeps the audience engaged. They are trolls and they embrace it and I personally love them for it.

[Tiny]

"Come on guys, I love and respect the fans. Let’s be friends.

I don’t feel the need to apologize for the comic, but I do have a pesky need to be understood. The comic was, obviously, a joke meant in good fun, and more specifically it was about my utter confusion with the culture of labeling anything and everything a troll/trolling. It was not an attempt to somehow generalize the entire fandom into one caricatured person and demean everyone in the process. It seems like the vast majority of people got the joke and the intention behind it, but hey, you wake up in the morning and you end up offending somebody. Try telling a joke to this many people…

When I started this blog four months ago I had no idea what trolling meant. It didn’t take long for me to notice that no matter what I did on here, chances were I was branded a troll for it. So like any modern person in his mid-30s, I looked up the definition on Wikipedia:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: “That was an excellent troll you posted.”

Me, four months ago: Ahhh, I get it! Trolling is when people on The Gear Page post “David Gilmour sucks!” on a David Gilmour appreciation thread. “Jerks! He most certainly does not suck! Get off this thread! Moderator!”

But apparently that isn’t all it means, as I’m still learning. Then Korra started airing and now the term is bandied about for anything and everything in the show too, not just the silly I stuff I do here on this blog. The Ikki/Zuko’s mom joke? Yes, 100% trolling. I’ll give you that, but that’s a topic for another discussion, one of which I am sick to death, hence the trolling. Everything else? We’re just doing what we always did: trying to tell an exciting story with character arcs, dynamic character relationships, humanized characters with virtues and flaws, action, danger, intrigue, humor, drama, teen romance, scary stuff, etc. But somehow now that’s all trolling and we’re trolls for it. Storytelling and art in general seek to elicit an emotional response out of people, and we’re trying to tell good stories and make good art. But do we sit around in the writers room rubbing our hands together thinking about how we can upset people just for the sake of upsetting them? Really? Sigh…

Alas, that’s the small price to pay for audience interaction, which is otherwise a big pleasure. *Oh, and I’d like to remind everyone that my name is at the top of this blog, not Mike’s or “Bryke,” so feel free to think I’m a jerk for the content on here, but it is unfair to drag him into it. I write “we” when I am comfortable speaking on behalf of both of us, but otherwise, this is just me.

And I get it: most people throw the trolling accusation around as a trope in good fun. I like good fun. But the short history of this blog shows that a certain percentage of people don’t appreciate when I partake in it. Or when I have any sense of humor about anything. So let me assure you: I love you guys and I’m just poking fun where and when I feel it warrants it. You guys are free to dissect, critique, parody, and condemn our work (all activities many of you do voraciously, and ones that could, in the common definition, be deemed as the fans trolling us) and we can take it, and we often get a laugh out of it too. But it is only fair that we get to dish it back in measured doses from time to time. I write to you guys the same way I write and speak to my friends, and they all think I’m a jerk too. Wait… what?

So there you go, that’s how the comic came about. And I’m still confused about trolling. I simply thought it was amusing that people would slam Korra as a troll-fest but would love Game of Thrones, a story where my favorite character had his head cut off.

Love,

Bryan

P.S. This wasn’t a rant, nor an apology. And the few people who thought I was a jerk for making the comic aren’t “bad fans,” nor am I saying anyone who ever called me a troll is one either. And my feelings certainly aren’t hurt. Rather, I was attempting to explain myself to those whose were. But I’m bad at explaining myself, which is why there are so many words up there and I still didn’t get my point across! And that’s a problem for someone with a pesky need to be understood. Carry on! And I hope you liked “Out of the Past.” I thought it came out neato!"


(http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/24780284674/come-on-guys-i-love-and-respect-the-fans-lets)

Tiny's opinion:

"Troll" connotes an attitude of angering someone simply to laugh at their anger, annoying them JUST for the sake of annoying them. As Bryan said, yes, they intentionally trolled once (with Zuko's mom), but the show and the culture surrounding the show (that they've created, or at the very least influenced) weren't done with the intention of annoying/angering anyone. They started being called "trolls," I think, when the phrase "FEELS" started to get big on tumblr, and they would accuse the writers of influencing THE FEEEEEELS for shits and giggles. There, we got pictures (memes even) of the creators, like... cackling, or realizing how intensely the fandom is analyzing things and manipulating the leaked information/the plot of the show to aggravate them. Heck, people would even accuse them of showing small clips of Aang in his past life just to tease them - nevermind the fact that it actually made perfect sense with the story.
I mean, sure, Nick.com and korranation are kinda being trolls with some of the "MAKORRA OR BORRA? VOTE" and the "TAHNO OR AMON?" comments on the website, but the creators don't influence that, the company does.

So no. Byke aren't trolls. They're trying to tell a legitimate story (with some minor trolling), and if someone's feels get injured by it, it's their own problem.

[Mika Hayami]

Flam's opinion:

The use of any word depends just as much on circumstance as connotation. I think troll has proven itself to be a trope of endearment, in Bryke's case, as Bryan states in his post, for their ability to be chill with the fandom and dish out humor in response to the countless memes and whatnot. Clearly that wasn't Bryan's point in the above post--I get that. When people TROLL by accusing them of being TROLLS, it can be frustrating and whatnot. But hey, my definition of troll and the definitions of it I see on FB and in RL, seem to be different from Tumblr's. (No, I don't have a Tumblr. No, I don't WANT a Tumblr.) Just saying, they've proven they can poke fun at the fandom when, frankly, it DESERVES some fun poked at it. So they are trolls and I respect them for it. Calling everything they do "trolling" does not help to clarify this denotation and connotation either. But hey, if it wasn't "troll," it would be something else. People will bitch no matter what labels they want to use. So...yeah, sorry I think they are trolls...also, sorry for LIKING that they have the capacity and good humor to return the lack of wit with ample wit.

And Picasso was a "mindless scribbler" and Da Vinci a "pointless doodler." That's art...dada. Labels don't matter...it's what you do with them.

[EndangeredOptimist]

Thank you Tinyartist for posting the details of Bryan's post and the web comic. I'm sorry. I don't know how to create "links" yet on the AP forum.

I concur with a lot of what you are saying Flam about 'labels' being what we make of them and nothing more.

But what concerns me most is Bryan feeling he has been "misunderstood" by fandom. Granted, Tumblr is a fast and furious taste of 'Avatar' fandom--with a #Legend of Korra feed rolling at about 10+ posts per minute. It's easy for that many people to get into a tizzy fairly fast over pretty much anything. For the last four months, Bryan, perhaps for the first time, has had his very finger on the pulse of fandom--in an up close and personal way.

I worry about his perception of what he sees there. Clearly not all of fandom cries "troll" everytime the LOK plot thickens or takes a dramatic turn. That's one of the best parts of 'Avatar.'

[Mika Hayami]

Hmmm...well, maybe he's just testing the waters to see if being straight and up front is the best way to get the crazies under control. It might work a little, but Bryan of all people should know that Tumblr is not representative of everyone's feelings. Maybe he was merely making a point that he felt needed to be said. That's legitimate, and worth his time, I think. I don't see him doing anything else after this post. It was a post on Tumblr for Tumblr after all.

[Tiny]

When I wrote something to him in response, I did say something similar. In fact, the exact phrase I used was that "troll" was used as a "term of endearment." I don't believe that it's true, and I certainly don't think that they deserve it. Because, in truth, there IS a connotation to "troll," and whether it is used maliciously or not, it implies an intentional aggravation of a person's feelings. That isn't true, therefore they are objectively not trolls.

That said, the fandom (and especially the fandom on tumblr, which is what he is reacting primarily to) does use the term endearingly for the most part in the same way that you would call a friend an idiot in a loving tone. That's fine. I'm not sure how they feel about the level of familiarity between the fans and the creators, but they have yet to respond negatively to that closeness. However, some of the fans do mean it. I am glad that you haven't seen that side of the fandom, perhaps because it exists much on tumblr, but the creators have taken a lot of flames for just about every action or preview or reveal. That's what Bryan was referencing in his comic and in his response.

I never criticized that you /liked/ their good humor. I find it wonderful, too. I'm sorry if what I said came across that way, but I too get much glee from their shenanigans. Hell, I'm not even adverse to calling them trolls, because I do concur with most of what you're saying. However, they are not trolls by nature or by practice, and sticking a few jokes at the expense of the fandom (In ATLA - Ember Island Players - as well in LoK) or to give them a small poke amuses doesn't make them habitual trolls in the way that a lot of the fandom implies.

Ultimate point: They do not fit the cultural/internet definition of trolls, therefore, they are not trolls. The situation surrounding it was more complicated, but it was right of Bryan (in my mind) to respond because it was becoming seriously used very often. That doesn't mean that we need to eradicate their poke-fun-at-the-fans humor. People aren't always going to love what they do, but the creators do it anyway. And that's awesome.

[EndangeredOptimist]

Hmmm...well, maybe he's just testing the waters to see if being straight and up front is the best way to get the crazies under control. It might work a little, but Bryan of all people should know that Tumblr is not representative of everyone's feelings. Maybe he was merely making a point that he felt needed to be said. That's legitimate, and worth his time, I think. I don't see him doing anything else after this post. It was a post on Tumblr for Tumblr after all.

Forgive me for using an extreme example to illustrate my point...

If an earthquake strikes Japan (again) and results in a nuclear meltdown, as a 'global community,' we cannot say, 'best of luck to you and yours--we hope you survive.' Clearly as members of the 'human community,' it would be imperative for us to step up and take action to do all we can to assist human beings who may be unable to 'help themselves' out of a natural disaster or an unforeseen crisis.

Although this 'event' happened on 'Tumblr' and Bryan addressed it directly on 'Tumblr,' it's happening within the confines of 'Avatar' fandom--a 'family' we all belong to, regardless of the 'fansite' with which we affiliate ourselves.

It would be unconscionable for us to say, "A devastating earthquake is Japan's problem--not ours--because that event doesn't impact us directly." Scientists have actually verified that radiation can travel the entire distance of the ocean, carried by the jet stream, to reach even as far San Francisco, Calif.

Similarly, a 'Tumblr' fandom issue which impacts Mike or Bryan personally, so much so, that one or both of them feel moved to say 'something,' is relatively significant. (IMO)

To be clear, I'm not saying the liberal use of the word "troll" when referring to Mike or Bryan is 'equal' to an earthquake in Japan or a possible subsequent nuclear meltdown, but I am saying fandom, like so many things in life, has a very delicate balance.

We live in an age where nothing truly separates us anymore. We are a global community. Therefore, in truth, for better or worse, fandom is intimately intertwined with Mike and Bryan, just as much as their 'art' is interwoven into us...everyday you spend admiring it, talking about it, thinking about it, looking at or creating fan-art, fan-fic or even cosplay...you are choosing to immerse yourself in all that is 'Avatar'--a work of "art," borne entirely of Mike and Bryan.

We can impact one another, whether we intend it or not and generally artists cannot separate themselves from their 'art' as it's a deeply personal extension of themselves. This is my concern.

[EndangeredOptimist]

When I wrote something to him in response, I did say something similar. In fact, the exact phrase I used was that "troll" was used as a "term of endearment." I don't believe that it's true, and I certainly don't think that they deserve it. Because, in truth, there IS a connotation to "troll," and whether it is used maliciously or not, it implies an intentional aggravation of a person's feelings. That isn't true, therefore they are objectively not trolls.

That said, the fandom (and especially the fandom on tumblr, which is what he is reacting primarily to) does use the term endearingly for the most part in the same way that you would call a friend an idiot in a loving tone. That's fine. I'm not sure how they feel about the level of familiarity between the fans and the creators, but they have yet to respond negatively to that closeness. However, some of the fans do mean it. I am glad that you haven't seen that side of the fandom, perhaps because it exists much on tumblr, but the creators have taken a lot of flames for just about every action or preview or reveal. That's what Bryan was referencing in his comic and in his response.

I never criticized that you /liked/ their good humor. I find it wonderful, too. I'm sorry if what I said came across that way, but I too get much glee from their shenanigans. Hell, I'm not even adverse to calling them trolls, because I do concur with most of what you're saying. However, they are not trolls by nature or by practice, and sticking a few jokes at the expense of the fandom (In ATLA - Ember Island Players - as well in LoK) or to give them a small poke amuses doesn't make them habitual trolls in the way that a lot of the fandom implies.

Ultimate point: They do not fit the cultural/internet definition of trolls, therefore, they are not trolls. The situation surrounding it was more complicated, but it was right of Bryan (in my mind) to respond because it was becoming seriously used very often. That doesn't mean that we need to eradicate their poke-fun-at-the-fans humor. People aren't always going to love what they do, but the creators do it anyway. And that's awesome.

So sorry for the double-post:

100 percent agree.

[Tera253]

The Ikki/Zuko’s mom joke? Yes, 100% trolling.

This is the reason they are trolls.
In all of my fiery career of calling Bryke trolls however, I have never had it be a cause of disrespect.
That's all I'll really say on the matter, since I think the main reason for this thread is for people to not disrespect Mike and Bryan for what is perceived as "trolling", which I do not, regardless of the troll label I still give them. in fact, this method of thinking is supported in Bryan's post as well.

And I get it: most people throw the trolling accusation around as a trope in good fun. I like good fun.

except for tumblr. The below picture is highly relevant, and why Bryan is perceived as such a troll.


my thoughts on the matter. I'll keep it short and sweet.
~Toph~

[Mika Hayami]

Strangely, I agree with everything Tera just said.

I never said that what Bryan said shouldn't have been said on Tumblr. I just don't care to acknowledge Tumblr as a force representative of the entire fandom--cuz it's not. The earthquake analogy is a maaaajor stretch. As I said, the more people like your art, the more they are going to bitch about it. It's a natural process, and Bryan has unfortunately put himself out there by having a Tumblr and interacting more directly with idiots. He gets to see the memes and make the comments, and in return the idiots will complain just as they would if any other creator was this close to the fandom. Human nature. Bryke both know that and can deal with it pretty well--hence their good humor. Yeah, he's frustrated, but there's really nothing you can do if you aren't part of the problem. One of the freedoms of the Internet.

I refuse to base my vocabulary around the lingo of n00bs. Again, sorry, but they are still trolls in my eyes, and I still love and respect them for it.

(Also, just a note...dunno if my words seem heated, but I just want to say that I am not getting worked up. Vocal tone is poorly communicated through text. )

[EndangeredOptimist]

The Ikki/Zuko’s mom joke? Yes, 100% trolling.

This is the reason they are trolls.
In all of my fiery career of calling Bryke trolls however, I have never had it be a cause of disrespect.
That's all I'll really say on the matter, since I think the main reason for this thread is for people to not disrespect Mike and Bryan for what is perceived as "trolling", which I do not, regardless of the troll label I still give them. in fact, this method of thinking is supported in Bryan's post as well.

And I get it: most people throw the trolling accusation around as a trope in good fun. I like good fun.

except for tumblr. The below picture is highly relevant, and why Bryan is perceived as such a troll.


my thoughts on the matter. I'll keep it short and sweet.
~Toph~

::falls over laughing at the 'Tumblr Extremism Graph'::

Wahahahha*cough*whahahaha!

[EndangeredOptimist]

Strangely, I agree with everything Tera just said.

I never said that what Bryan said shouldn't have been said on Tumblr. I just don't care to acknowledge Tumblr as a force representative of the entire fandom--cuz it's not. The earthquake analogy is a maaaajor stretch. As I said, the more people like your art, the more they are going to bitch about it. It's a natural process, and Bryan has unfortunately put himself out there by having a Tumblr and interacting more directly with idiots. He gets to see the memes and make the comments, and in return the idiots will complain just as they would if any other creator was this close to the fandom. Human nature. Bryke both know that and can deal with it pretty well--hence their good humor. Yeah, he's frustrated, but there's really nothing you can do if you aren't part of the problem. One of the freedoms of the Internet.

I refuse to base my vocabulary around the lingo of n00bs. Again, sorry, but they are still trolls in my eyes, and I still love and respect them for it.

(Also, just a note...dunno if my words seem heated, but I just want to say that I am not getting worked up. Vocal tone is poorly communicated through text. )

So sorry again for the double-post...

I really relish discussing such things with other intellectually-endowed 'Avatar' fans, e.g., you (Flam), Tera and Tiny...it's nice.

No offense taken at all. I understand intonations cannot be fully communicated well via text or forums.

Flam: "...Yeah, he's frustrated, but there's really nothing you can do if you aren't part of the problem. One of the freedoms of the Internet..."

True. But I can't help but worry and be concerned. Nothing ever really impacts us dramatically the first couple of times it happens--like a drop of rain on stone--but if enough drops of rain fall on the same stone repeatedly over a long period of time, eventually it has the power to wear through the rock and can leave an indentation or scar.

Mike and Bryan are climbing quickly to a pinnacle period in their careers--one of many I'm sure. They have so much to look forward to and even though "now" may seem full of 'pretty epic awesome,' there's so much more remaining. It would be a grave tragedy if they found themselves accidentally backing into a space where the "Tumblr troll-happy" part of fandom drove them into seeing their brilliant creative work as merely a "job" they had to force themselves out of bed to go to everyday, e.g., a grown-up's worst nightmare.

[Pleh]

And now I present exhibit A: The Book 4 video produced and showed by Bryke at SDCC one year in response to the fandom shipping wars and outcry for a fourth season.



There are COUNTLESS examples of Bryke's mastery of trollship (one of my favorites was actually admitted in a special content on season 1's disk). However, they are GOOD trolls. Anyone who can't take the heat should get the hell out of the game. And if Bryan is hurt by people dishing this shit back at him, then he needs to get out of the game as well. It's all in good fun until someone gets hurt, but this is the kind of love-hate relationship we've all come to know, love, and respect from bryke. We've made our bed and now we all get to sleep in it together. We're all trolls deep down inside, or else we wouldn't love the show so much. I'm sorry that Bryan (and so much of our community) has come to accept Tumblr as the primary home of the fandom, but if that's where they want to do their business, let them do so. Just don't expect me to have much sympathy for them when they come crying back to us about how mean people are there.

[EndangeredOptimist]

Tumblr is an Avatar fansite unto itself. (IMO) And I think you're right Pleh, if that's where Bryan and now (squee!) Mike have elected to set up camp to interact directly with their fandom, they will have to accept the 'good' with the 'bad.' The 'Internets' is serious business as we all know. lol

Sidenote: A crisp $100 bill to the Avatar fan who has the brass 'you-know-whats' to ask Mike and Bryan at the SDCC in July what they think of the troll-action, Avatar porn and Hentai on Tumblr. LOL

[Kana]

Mike and Bryan weren't trolling. That is just wrong to call it that. They added a layer of depth to the story. The avatar isn't invincible. No one is. Katara is supposedly one of the world's best waterbenders and the best healer. Hama bloodbent her. We all thought it was pretty cool. Something so thought provoking as Hama is rarely seen in cartoons now-a-days. LoK needed a Hama. And Hama is found in the form of Amon. So I ask this question. Is Amon just a crazy, power-hungry rebel? Or can Yakone be blamed for the rebellion?

[Pleh]

Mike and Bryan weren't trolling. That is just wrong to call it that.

In the finale? No, not really. They were trolling elsewhere.

The avatar isn't invincible. No one is. Katara is supposedly one of the world's best waterbenders and the best healer. Hama bloodbent her. We all thought it was pretty cool. Something so thought provoking as Hama is rarely seen in cartoons now-a-days.

All fine up to this point...

LoK needed a Hama.

... Now that is debatable. Does Korra NEED a Hama? I think that was originally more just an idea they played for a Halloween episode. While it's nice that the show is a little darker and more mature, I don't think it NEEDS Hama to make it a good show.

And Hama is found in the form of Amon.

Whoa, where do you jump to this conclusion? I think Amon was a little more like Ozai than Hama. Hama was a corrupting, twisted character. Amon was more of an ambitious dreamer toying with dark powers. More like Ozai. Also sets himself opposite the Avatar as the primary antagonist.

So I ask this question. Is Amon just a crazy, power-hungry rebel? Or can Yakone be blamed for the rebellion?

Amon is just a twisted, abused man who strives to make the world better through directly shaping it to his will. Yakone could be blamed for what he did to his sons, but it really wasn't his intention to start the Equalists.

[Kana]

I didn't mean that it HAD to have a Hama to make it a great show. What I meant was more along the lines of- I liked that there was a darker character. For me, I was really wanting to see a darker element to the show. When Hama was introduced, I had a bit more respect for the ATLA (not that I didn't already have TONS). It was cool to see something darker and not just the same run-of-the-mill cartoon show where everything is rainbows and sunshine. Hama was a dark character in ATLA. And even though it was just for a Halloween show, I think it was needed for kids to see. To show the fact that there are sick and twisted people out there. And in LoK, Amon was found to be the darker character not only for starting a rebellion and taking people's bending away, but by bloodbending as well. Although he's not as crazy as Hama, it's a twisted power. That's why I said she was found in the form of Amon. Legend of Korra is a good show with/without the slightly darker bit of it. I apologize if I didn't really make sense. I'm not the best at explaining myself..

[EndangeredOptimist]

I didn't mean that it HAD to have a Hama to make it a great show. What I meant was more along the lines of- I liked that there was a darker character. For me, I was really wanting to see a darker element to the show. When Hama was introduced, I had a bit more respect for the ATLA (not that I didn't already have TONS). It was cool to see something darker and not just the same run-of-the-mill cartoon show where everything is rainbows and sunshine. Hama was a dark character in ATLA. And even though it was just for a Halloween show, I think it was needed for kids to see. To show the fact that there are sick and twisted people out there. And in LoK, Amon was found to be the darker character not only for starting a rebellion and taking people's bending away, but by bloodbending as well. Although he's not as crazy as Hama, it's a twisted power. That's why I said she was found in the form of Amon. Legend of Korra is a good show with/without the slightly darker bit of it. I apologize if I didn't really make sense. I'm not the best at explaining myself..

I thought you explained yourself perfectly. I think we all have differing views of the term 'troll.' I see it as Mike and Bryan's way of doing what they do best--interjecting enormously 'OMFG' plot twists much to the delight and sometimes horror of adoring Avatar fans.

I agree with you about Hama being to Katara what Amon is to Korra. I think they are both characters who are products of their environments and past--and are VERY, VERY human. It's just like Mike and Bryan to present them in a way which forces us to THINK about the true nature of good and evil. How did Darth Vader become Darth Vader, etc.? That kind of thing.

[Kana]

I thought you explained yourself perfectly. I think we all have differing views of the term 'troll.' I see it as Mike and Bryan's way of doing what they do best--interjecting enormously 'OMFG' plot twists much to the delight and sometimes horror of adoring Avatar fans.

I agree with you about Hama being to Katara what Amon is to Korra. I think they are both characters who are products of their environments and past--and are VERY, VERY human. It's just like Mike and Bryan to present them in a way which forces us to THINK about the true nature of good and evil. How did Darth Vader become Darth Vader, etc.? That kind of thing. [/quote]

Well thanks! That's pretty much exactly what I'm trying to say.